Moderator: Mark Templet
1937 Miraculous Cross wrote:"Whosoever does not follow the Tradition of the Church and all that the Seven Ecumenical Synods have ordained concerning Holy Pascha and the Menaion...let such a one be anathema, excommunicated....
Just as well the New Calendarists follow neither the Gregorian Paschalion nor the Gregorian Menaion then.
"As long as it depends on Monothelitism, then Miaphysitism is nothing but a variant of Monophysitism."
In essence the "revised" Julian Menaion is the same as the Gregorian Menaion. Just because there are differences with some saints being celebrated on certain days, there are differences between the Greek and Russian typicon. One could argue then that the Greeks and Russian have differing Menaions. This type of argument is mincing words and missing the big picture.
The Patriarchs of Alexandria, Jerusalem and Antioch condemned the 1923 proposed "revised Julian" because it was the Gregorian calendar. The only reason some patriarchates switched was due to regime change of bishops from pressure by the Greek government.
Nectarios
1937 Miraculous Cross wrote:Just because there are differences with some saints being celebrated on certain days,
Dear in Christ, Nektarios,
Not only are most of the Saint's feasts not the same in the New Calendar and Gregorian Calendar, even some Major Feasts of Our Lord are not the same, and the Calendars are also calculated differently. To give just a few examples.
The New Calendar has the Baptism of the Saviour on Theophany, January 6th. The Gregorian Calendar celebrates the Baptism of Christ on the Sunday following Epiphany.
The New Calendar Feast of the Holy Trinity is on Pentecost. The Gregorian Calendar celebrates the Feast of the Holy Trinity on the Sunday after Pentecost.
The New Calendar celebrates the Day of the Holy Spirit on the day after Pentecost, the Gregorian Calendar does not have this Feast.
The New Calendar calculates the Feast of All Saints according to the Paschalion. The Gregorian Calendar celebrates it on November 1st.
The New Calendar celebrates the Entrance of the Theotokos to the Temple on November 21st. The West did not celebrate this feast until 1372, and at the time of the Gregorian Calendar, there was no common date for it until 1584 when it was celebrated on September 1st.
The New Calendar and Gregorian Calendars do not even begin on the same day. The New Calendar begins on September 1st. The Gregorian begins January 1st. As a result, the Solar cycles and Lunar cycles of the two calendars differ.
The New Calendar still follows the 15 year cycle of Indiction, the Gregorian does not.
These few examples indicate that the differences between the New Calendar and the Gregorian Calendar are vastly more than "some saints being celebrated on different days".
George
"As long as it depends on Monothelitism, then Miaphysitism is nothing but a variant of Monophysitism."
joasia wrote:Isn't the new calendar based on the Gregorian calendar?
Dear in Christ Joanna,
No it isn't. That's the whole point. If their Paschalions are different, and their Menaions are different, and they start on different dates, and they have different lunar cycles, and one follows the Indiction cycle and the other doesn't and so on...how could anyone suggest that the New Calendar is 'based on the Gregorian Calendar'?
George
"As long as it depends on Monothelitism, then Miaphysitism is nothing but a variant of Monophysitism."
1937 Miraculous Cross wrote:In essence the "revised" Julian Menaion is the same as the Gregorian Menaion.
Dear In Christ, Nectarios,
Below is the Gregorian Calendar. I have highlighted in bold the Dates which coincide in some way with days on the New Calendar. You will note:
(1) There are 20 coincidences- that's 5 percent.
(2) Most Saints which are commonly held between East and West (including most of the Apostles) are not commemorated on the same date.
(3) All of the 20 coincidences are observed by the Old Calendarists only 13 days later. For example the Feast of St. Nicholas is December 6th whether you're Roman Catholic, or Old Calendarist or New Calendarist. Or do you think the feast of St. Nicholas has been transferred to November 23rd by some Old Calendarist innovation?
There is a match of 5 percent between the Gergorian and Revised Julian Menaion, as compared to a match of 100 percent between the Revised Julian and Old Calendar Menaion. So could you please explain what you mean by "in essence the "revised" Julian Menaion is the same as the Gregorian Menaion"?
George
GREGORIAN CALENDAR
January
1 Octave of Christmas - SOLEMNITY OF MARY, MOTHER OF GOD Solemnity
2 Basil the Great and Gregory Nazianzen, bishops and doctors Memorial
4 * Elizabeth Ann Seton Memorial
5 * Blessed John Neumann, bishop Memorial
6 EPIPHANY Solemnity
7 Raymond of Penyafort, priest
13 Hilary, bishop and doctor
17 Anthony, abbot Memorial
20 Fabian, pope and martyr; Sebastian, martyr
21 Agnes, virgin and martyr Memorial
22 Vincent, deacon and martyr
24 Francis de Sales, bishop and doctor Memorial
25 CONVERSION OF PAUL, APOSTLE Feast
26 Timothy and Titus, bishops Memorial
27 Angela Merici, virgin
28 Thomas Aquinas, priest and doctor Memorial
31 John Bosco, priest Memorial
Sunday after January 6: BAPTISM OF OUR LORD Feast
February
2 PRESENTATION OF OUR LORD Feast
3 Blase, bishop and martyr; Ansgar, bishop
5 Agatha, virgin and martyr Memorial
6 Paul Mike and companions, martyrs Memorial
8 Jerome Emiliani
10 Scholastica, virgin Memorial
11 Our Lady of Lourdes
14 Cyril, monk; Methodius, bishop Memorial
17 Seven Founders of the Order of Servites
21 Peter Damian, bishop and doctor Memorial
22 CHAIR OF PETER, APOSTLE Feast
23 Polycarp, bishop and martyr Memorial
March
4 Casimir
7 Perpetua and Felicity, martyrs Memorial
8 John of God, religious
9 Frances of Rome, religious
17 Patrick, bishop
18 Cyril of Jerusalem, bishop and doctor
19 JOSEPH, HUSBAND OF MARY Solemnity
23 Turibius de Mongrovejo, bishop
25 ANNUNCIATION Solemnity
April
2 Francis of Paola, hermit
4 Isidore, bishop and doctor
5 Vincent Ferrer, priest
7 John Baptist de la Salle, priest Memorial
11 Stanislaus, bishop and martyr
13 Martin I, pope and martyr
21 Anselm, bishop and doctor
23 George, martyr
24 Fidelis of Sigmaringen, priest and martyr
25 MARK, EVANGELIST Feast
28 Peter Chanel, priest and martyr
29 Catherine of Siena, virgin and doctor Memorial
May
1 Joseph the Worker
2 Athanasius, bishop and doctor Memorial
3 PHILIP AND JAMES, APOSTLES Feast
12 Nereus and Achilleus, martyrs; Pancras, martyr
14 MATTHIAS, APOSTLE Feast
15 * Isidore
18 John I, pope and martyr
20 Bernardine of Siena, priest
25 Venerable Bede, priest and doctor; Gregory VII, pope; Mary Magdalene de Pazzi, virgin
26 Philip Neri, priest Memorial
27 Augustine of Canterbury, bishop
31 VISITATION Feast
First Sunday after Pentecost: HOLY TRINITY Solemnity
Sunday after Holy Trinity: CORPUS CHRISTI Solemnity
Friday following Second Sunday after Pentecost: SACRED HEART Solemnity
Saturday following Second Sunday after Pentecost: Immaculate Heart of Mary
June
1 Justin, martyr Memorial
2 Marcellinus and Peter, martyrs
3 Charles Lwanga and companions, martyrs Memorial
5 Boniface, bishop and martyr Memorial
6 Nobert, bishop
9 Ephrem, deacon and doctor
11 Barnabas, apostle Memorial
13 Anthony of Padua, priest and doctor Memorial
19 Romuald, abbot
21 Aloysius Gonzaga, religious Memorial
22 Paulinus of Nola, bishop; John Fisher, bishop and martyr; Thomas More, martyr
24 BIRTH OF JOHN THE BAPTIST Solemnity
27 Cyril of Alexandria, bishop and martyr
28 Irenaeus, bishop and martyr Memorial
29 PETER AND PAUL, APOSTLES Solemnity
30 First Martyrs of the Church of Rome
July
3 THOMAS, APOSTLE Feast
4 Elizabeth of Portugal
5 Anthony Zaccaria, priest
6 Maria Goretti, virgin and martyr
11 Benedict, abbot Memorial
13 Henry
14 Camillus de Lellis, priest
15 Bonaventure, bishop and doctor Memorial
16 Our Lady of Mount Carmel
21 Lawrence of Brindisi, priest and doctor
22 Mary Magdalene Memorial
23 Bridget, religious
25 JAMES, APOSTLE Feast
26 Joachim and Ann, parents of Mary Memorial
29 Martha Memorial
30 Peter Chrysologus, bishop and doctor
31 Ignatius of Loyola, priest Memorial
August
1 Alphonsus Liguori, bishop and doctor Memorial
2 Eusebius of Vercelli, bishop
4 John Vianney, priest Memorial
5 Dedication of Saint Mary Major
6 TRANSFIGURATION Feast
7 Sixtus II, pope and martyr, and companions, martyrs; Cajetan, priest
8 Dominic, priest Memorial
10 LAWRENCE, DEACON AND MARTYR Feast
11 Clare, virgin Memorial
13 Pontian, pope and martyr, and Hippolytus, priest and martyr
15 ASSUMPTION Solemnity
16 Stephen of Hungary
19 John Eudes, priest
20 Bernard, abbot and doctor Memorial
21 Pius X, pope Memorial
22 Queenship of Mary Memorial
23 Rose of Lima, virgin
24 BARTHOLOMEW, APOSTLE Feast
25 Louis; Joseph Calasanz, priest
27 Monica Memorial
28 Augustine, bishop and doctor Memorial
29 Beheading of John the Baptist, martyr Memorial
September
3 Gregory the Great, pope and doctor Memorial
8 BIRTH OF MARY Feast
9 * Peter Claver, priest Memorial
13 John Chrysostom, bishop and doctor Memorial
14 TRIUMPH OF THE CROSS Feast
15 Our Lady of Sorrows Memorial
16 Cornelius, pope and martyr, and Cyprian, bishop and martyr Memorial
17 Robert Bellarmine, bishop and doctor
19 Januarius, bishop and martyr
21 MATTHEW, APOSTLE AND EVANGELIST Feast
26 Cosmas and Damian, martyrs
27 Vincent de Paul, priest Memorial
28 Wenceslaus, martyr
29 MICHAEL, GABRIEL, AND RAPHAEL, ARCHANGELS Feast
30 Jerome, priest and doctor Memorial
October
1 Theresa of the Child Jesus, virgin Memorial
2 Guardian Angels Memorial
4 Francis of Assisi Memorial
6 Bruno, priest
7 Our Lady of the Rosary Memorial
9 Denis, bishop and martyr, and companions, martyrs; John Leonardi, priest
14 Callistus I, pope and martyr
15 Teresa of Avila, virgin and doctor Memorial
16 Hedwig, religious; Margaret Mary Alacoque, virgin
17 Ignatius of Antioch, bishop and martyr Memorial
18 LUKE, EVANGELIST Feast
19
23 John of Capistrano, priest
24 Anthony of Claret, bishop
28 SIMON AND JUDE, APOSTLES Feast
November
1 ALL SAINTS Solemnity
2 ALL SOULS
3 Martin de Porres, religious
4 Charles Borromeo, bishop Memorial
9 DEDICATION OF SAINT JOHN LATERAN Feast
10 Leo the Great, pope and doctor Memorial
11 Martin of Tours, bishop Memorial
12 Josaphat, bishop and martyr
13 * Frances Xavier Cabrini, virgin Memorial
15 Albert the Great, bishop and doctor
16 Margaret of Scotland; Gertrude, virgin
17 Elizabeth of Hungary, religious Memorial
18 Dedication of the churches of Peter and Paul, apostles
21 Presentation of Mary Memorial
22 Cecilia, virgin and martyr Memorial
23 Clement I, pope and martyr; Columban, abbot
30 ANDREW, APOSTLE Feast
Last Sunday in Ordinary Time: CHRIST THE KING Solemnity
December
3 Francis Xavier, priest Memorial
4 John Damascene, priest and doctor
6 Nicholas, bishop
7 Ambrose, bishop and doctor Memorial
8 IMMACULATE CONCEPTION Solemnity
11 Damasus I, pope
12 * Our Lady of Guadalupe; Jane Frances de Chantal, religious Memorial
13 Lucy, virgin and martyr Memorial
14 John of the Cross, priest and doctor Memorial
21 Peter Canisius, priest and doctor
23 John of Kanty, priest
25 CHRISTMAS Solemnity
26 STEPHEN, FIRST MARTYR Feast
27 JOHN, APOSTLE AND EVANGELIST Feast
28 HOLY INNOCENTS, MARTYRS Feast
29 Thomas Becket, bishop and martyr
31 Sylvester I, pope
Sunday within the octave of Christmas or if there is no Sunday within the octave, December 30: HOLY FAMILY Feast
"As long as it depends on Monothelitism, then Miaphysitism is nothing but a variant of Monophysitism."
You might want try matching it up with the pre-Vatican 2 RC calendar instead, as more will match up this way. Regardless the "New Calendar" is the Gregorian Calendar with a Julian Pashalion attached except in Finland where they are full Gregorian in order to get the oft-coveted precious tax money from the government.
