Holy Thorn of Glastonbury

[AndyHolland]

From http://storm.prohosting.com/lewisham/custom.html

The earliest reference to the Thorn is in a thirteenth-century history of Glastonbury Abbey. The tree was watched carefully every Christmas to see if the blossom appeared. After it had grown two trunks, a local superstition warned against 'cutting the Holy Thorn on Christmas Eve when you hear the buds cracking, or you will receive a curse'. Tradition states that this came from the fate of a man who had chopped down one of the trunks during the reign of Elizabeth I. When he tried to cut the second trunk, 'thorns flew into his eyes and blinded him'. The tradition of sending Christmas blooms to the Monarch began in the reign of Henry VIII. A Dr Layton was sent to Glastonbury in 1535 to investigate rumours concerning the tree. The doctor sent back to London 'two flowers wrapped in black sarsnet, that in Christmass Mass, at the very hour Christ was born, will spring and burgeon and bear blossoms'. The custom of sending blooms was stopped by Charles I, but revived in 1922 when Queen Mary agreed to receive some each time the Holy Thorn lived up to its reputation.

Queen Elizabeth II received blooms from the Thorn on several occasions but the large tree that had supplied them for eighty years was pronounced dead in June 1991, and was cut down in February 1992. It had been planted by the head gardener of Glastonbury Abbey, who had also learned how to graft Holy Thorn cuttings onto the root of Blackthorn stock, and so preserve the 'miraculous' Christmas blossoming characteristic. Attempts have been made to grow the Holy Thorn from seed and direct cuttings, but all have reverted to the normal Hawthorn type, flowering only in spring. Holy Thorns have been sent all over the world and trees survive from earlier graftings to perpetuate the Glastonbury legend. Among them are two other Holy Thorns in the grounds of St John's and in recent years the blooms sent to Queen Elizabeth II have come from these.

[AndyHolland]

A new twist to the tree:

http://viamichelin.co.uk/viamichelin/gb ... onbury.htm

"Just before Christmas, in the churchyard of St John's parish church, a dark, dense thorn tree bursts into white blossom. This is not normally a winter-flowering species. "It's quite extraordinary, really," explains churchwarden and historian Neil Bonham, "not only does it flower near Christmas, but it also flowers again at Easter time. Quite strange." And it is this strangeness that has fascinated both Glastonbury residents and visitors for centuries."

If, as they report - this has been going on for centuries, then the tree has been keeping a Tropical year based on the Earth crossing the plane of the Ecliptic. When the Julian calendar was dropped, the King was dismayed and skeptics were "pleased."

However, the tree's year had precessed not in accordance with the seasons, but with the stars. "For those who worshipped the stars, were taught by a star to worship [Christ], the dayspring from on high."

yours in Christ,

andy holland

[Ebor]

Thank you for more interesting sites with legends of St. Joseph and the Thorn among other things.

It is interesting to note the first mention being in the 13th Century, rather late on in the centuries that Christianity has been present in England.

It is also interesting to note at the bottom of the Michelin page the pink box with:
" Practical information
Thorn Cutting Ceremony: 11 December, St John's parish church, High Street, Glastonbury BA6 9DP."

Which is some weeks away from "Old Calendar Christmas", since I would think it save to assume that such a web site would use the Gregorian Calendar.

If, as they report - this has been going on for centuries, then the tree has been keeping a Tropical year based on the Earth crossing the plane of the Ecliptic. When the Julian calendar was dropped, the King was dismayed and skeptics were "pleased."

However, the tree's year had precessed not in accordance with the seasons, but with the stars. "For those who worshipped the stars, were taught by a star to worship [Christ], the dayspring from on high."

What is the source of the above quote about King and skeptics? The second one might be referring to the Magi, and while poetic doesn't apply to a plant.

What do you mean by the Earth "crossing the plane of the Ecliptic"? The planet doesn't cross the Ecliptic. It's in the plane of the Ecliptic with the Sun and the other planets with the Moon being about 5 degrees off (and Pluto about 17 degrees of and Mercury 7 degrees to be precise ). Are you thinking of the 23.5 degree angle of the Earth's spin axis?

Processing not with seasons but with stars is also poetic, but I don't see how it relates to astronomy.

Ebor

[AndyHolland]

Again, a tropical year is based on a celestial sphere of stars. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_year

The point being a seasonal year precesses relative to a tropical year.

As to the song, it is from the E.O. Troparion for Christmas referring to the Magi.

The theological point being, that the "fixed' feast of Christmas should be afixed to celestial (star) field.

If you check the references I provided ad nauseum, you will find that there is contradictory information, however, when you overlap them the story unfolds as originally presented.

The tree has kept the tropical year. We have several references including an expedition in Henry VIII time (Dr. Layton) and the modern observation. The difference between seasonal and tropical years should be > about 4 days, and Dr. Layton reported the tree had bloomed on the very hour (prior to being destroyed by Puritans). Its cuttings, currently observed, pop on Old Christmas - people gathering around to hear it (See above references). Only graftings of the original tree bloom in accordance with the proper date according to the references provided above.

To review:

1. It was ancient in Henry VIII day - 500 years ago.
2. It blooms on Orthodox Christmas
3. Its failure to change blooms led George II in 1752 to discontinue the custom of receiving the blooms
4. Charles I used the Old Christmas date/bloom to argue with his wife's Catholic Priest

All very "famous' well documented facts.

Why would one particular tree keep a tropical year, and bloom on Christmas?

The tree has proven a very good astronomer. Distant star gravity practically 0, distant star light practically 0 - the tree has reportedly (see above references) kept the tropical year. Prior to it being savaged by a Puritan, it reportedly (according to an investigation carried out by a Doctor to a tyrannt known for chopping off heads) bloomed on the very hour of the nativity.

Andy

[Ebor]

To you the story "unfolds" amongst all the contradictory sites. You have said that you believe the legend without any corroborative data. OK. To others the contradictory sites are examples that just because something is in print on the 'net doesn't make it true.

You have not proved that the Holy Thorn does bloom on "Old Calendar Christmas" by repeating the claim over and over. "Extraordinary claims require at least ordinary proof". The cutting of the Thorn is, according to a site you provided, this coming weekend on December 11th. This is not near January 6/7 by some weeks.

Your "famous" well documented fact #3 is incorrect. Again from a link you provided it states that the sending of some of the Thorn to the King was discontinued in the time of Charles I:
http://storm.prohosting.com/lewisham/custom.html
"The custom of sending blooms was stopped by Charles I, but revived in 1922 when Queen Mary agreed to receive some each time the Holy Thorn lived up to its reputation."

Your other facts are not supported, only reported as at best secondary sources. Pious legends may be based on fact, but that does not make everything in them a fact.

My neighbors forsythia has put out some blooms in the last few days and it snowed yesterday. Usually they bloom in March here. Plants to things like that. They can also be affected by length of daylight, moisture, sheltered growing area that keeps things warmer, any number of things. For whatever reason, the Holy Thorn is reported to bloom "around Christmas" as other sites have said.

Your reference to the Thorn being an astronomer is puzzling. Is there one particular star that it is supposed to be reacting to?

If someone were to tell you that this year the Thorn bloomed in in the next couple of weeks, would you believe them? Would you ask for proof?

Why does this matter so much to you?

Ebor

[AndyHolland]

To you the story "unfolds" amongst all the contradictory sites. You have said that you believe the legend without any corroborative data. OK. To others the contradictory sites are examples that just because something is in print on the 'net doesn't make it true.

OK- I really take issue with that statement. That they are contradictory does not mean they are mutually exclusive.

God in his love does not coerce us to believe anything about Him or His works - neither will I. That is the intrinsic beauty of free will and the gift of peace. There will always be adverse reports and contradictory information, particularly about those things that are especially (super) natural.

I believe all things visible and invisible.

I do so based on evidence and facts that are not brought to your attention to coerce.

There is a reason why there are four Gospels. There is a reason that some believed they saw Jesus ascend, but others doubted it was Him and this was faithfully recorded in Holy Scripture. There are always inconsistencies when people report events.

It is precisely those inconsistencies that make the truth so apparent. Where there is no apparent inconsistency (in the things of the devil), there you will find the devil in the details. In Holy Scripture, the opposite is the case. Evidence that seems contradictory on the surface is presented. When one delves into the details, there angels of consistency and beauty are found.

If you diligently go through all of the references, and compare where several agree, a consistent pattern will emerge. I must admit on George II, I took one source for the discontinuance. However, several documents indicated his annoyance at the failure of the tree to perform in accordance with his will.

That the tree has maintained a year on the basis of a celestial sphere not in accord with the precision of the axis and the apparent tropical seasonal year is remarkable. Perhaps not to you - but to me at least and perhaps to others who do believe all things as well - and take the creed seriously in all things.

Andy Holland
Holland-Daze Farm
Somerset PA