Salvation outside the church

[TomS]

CHRIST IS RISEN!

Based on your views(not facts)...we and your son are worm meal. Yeah. That certainly is SOOO much more comforting. (insert sarcasm here).

Actually it IS fact that we all decay back to dust. Are you saying that humans will not decay back to dust? 'Cause I think you are espousing a new teaching that goes against scripture. Tread carefully, my dear, or we will have to send you to the re-education camp.

"comforting", "comforting" ? How is that relevant at all to the Truth? What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying that you believe what you believe because it is more "comforting" than the alternatives? Geez. That's not very reassuring.

For a business man, you certainly don't know how to sell the lie of evolution.

I don't recall trying to "sell" anything; I simply answered your question. I have absolutely no interest in arguing evolution with you or anyone else.

And besides, a good businessman "sells" nothing; he finds a need and fills it. You should take that message to heart.

Time to teach Joanna - How successful do you think a businessman would be if he attacked prospects because they had a different opinion than his? The prospect says "I like blue", and the crabby, shrill, know-it-all businessman (guess who this is?) says "You are stupid! Black is a better color." I will tell you - they would be out of business. No one wants to do business with a crabby, shrill, unpleasant person. Try a little honey, honey. It will get you further.

Looks like this is one business you can't make fly. Get some facts of your own before arguing.

Sheesh. I am not intersted in making this "business fly" But for the record, if I wanted to, you would be one of the first in line.

You're on my territory now, "baby".

How so? You have an expertise in this area? Any original thoughts on this topic? Or are you just regurgitationg the same tired arguments that you have read? Oops, I think I know that answer to that.

[joasia]

CHRIST IS RISEN!

my GOA Priest says that Orthodoxy and Evolution can coexist

Yeah. Ask him to prove it. Otherwise, there is nothing left to say.

Your priest is wrong. And I can prove it.

[joasia]

How so? You have an expertise in this area? Any original thoughts on this topic? Or are you just regurgitationg the same tired arguments that you have read? Oops, I think I know that answer to that.

My expertise is living the Christian life. And there are no original thoughts when dealing with the truth that has been lived from generation to generation. The fact that there is no original idea about God in Orthodoxy, shows that the teachings are stable. Have you heard of all the "original" thoughts the Protestants expound? All those denominations and they all have different ideas. No unity. No wonder you're confused.

And what would you care about experts anyways? The holy fathers were the highest authority of knowledge of the Orthodox faith and you don't believe them, so don't be a hypocrite. You couldn't care less about "expertise". You just want to sling mud. Are you bored?

[Paul7]

Was 'St.' Isaac the syrian a Nestorian?
Didn't his belief in universal salvation make him a heretic as that opinion had been condemned centuries prior to his writings?

[Paul7]

no quotes

[joasia]

CHRIST IS RISEN!

Paul,

Don't doubt Met. Philaret for a moment, but doubt your interpretation of what he said.

If you doubt the words of the servant of God, then you will come to doubt your faith.

Met. Philaret was a servant of God...but, I don't know who Fr. Fenney is.

Quotes are picked from a long explanation and you create a devious implication...I see what you're trying to do. Give it up.

Met. Philaret wil not be blemished in this smear campaign.

In Christ, Joanna

[Paul7]

Dear Joanna,
You are correct. Quotes can be taken out of context so they aren't very good at proving a point. Also, most people probably haven't heard about Fr. Feeney so the quote from him is pointless. He was referred to above in this topic as a Roman Catholic priest in Boston who defended the Catholic dogma that outside the church there is absolutely no salvation. The quote I posted was from his book 'Bread of Life'. Its online.

I posted Metropolitan Philaret's reply the the question of whether the heterodox will be saved. Its on the Orthodox info.com website.

I should have written what was on my mind in posting these. I could see how you could think I was being 'devious'. I apologize for any scandal I have caused.

The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church has always taught that there is no salvation outside the church. It has the apostolic mandate to teach all nations converting them to the true church so men can be saved from the fires and wrath of eternal damnation. Schisms and heresies are outside the church. Heretics, infidels, jews, schismatics, etc. are following the devil and are on the road to hell. This is a dogma and an article of faith. All those living in religions outside the One Holy Catholic and apostolic Church are on the road to hell.

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I understand that the Orthodox are non-judgemental in their view  towards those who die outside the church.  I believe it is heretical to say that any man can be saved without the one church of God.  No, I don't believe Metropolitan Philaret was a true shepherd and successor to the apostles.  I believe that the Eastern Orthodox non-judgemental view of looking at the state of those in heresy, schism, infidelity, etc. is a true sign that the Orthodox Church doesn't hold the apostolic faith.  I believe the non-judgmental view blasphemes the work of the divine word incarnate, it spreads disdain for the works of the apostles and all missionaries that have labored for the salvation of countless barbaric peoples who otherwise wouldn't have known the true faith needed to aquire salvation,  it goes against the clear teachings of the early church fathers, and it denies the love and providence of God who in his mercy would show a good willed heretic or schismatic that they needed to convert to be saved.  This might take a miracle or the sending of a priest, etc. God wouldn't leave a lost soul in their heretical communion to work out there salvation and implicitly believe in the true church.  The theory of invincible ignorance denies the place of God in the bringing the gospel to those that truly seek. 

The following is what is needed to be said by those who represent the one and only true religion that can save mankind when questioned on the status of eternal souls if they reject the body of christ. Please forgive for using another quote, but it can be found on the internet if anyone would like to search. Thank you for your replies and interest.

Pope Eugene IV and the Council of Florence (A.D. 1438 - 1445): "[The most Holy Roman Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart `into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."